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Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Worlds End Consortium
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Posted - 2009.01.16 17:54:00 -
[1]
I thought stealing mission critical items are considered an exploit under CCP's CURRENT terms. |
Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Worlds End Consortium
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Posted - 2009.01.17 16:17:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Tchell Dahhn
Originally by: Venkul Mul
I think that no GM will reset a mission if the target item was stolen by another player unless it was one of the starting missions done in the school system by new players.
I've heard reports of it from a few of our Alliance Members, whereby they were not in starter systems, and the Missions were immediately respawned, so I do believe that it might happen, if even sporadically. My reason for this vote is to bring to light the possibility that the GM's might not have a 'rulebook' per se, as much as a 'go with your gut on this one' when it comes to resetting Missions. (Hell - you never know if the Mission Runner hasn't said, "I've killed everything, and the Mission Item didn't drop" to get the GM to intervene.) In this specific instance, it affects more than the Runner, and that's the reason for my request.
First: in your OP you state that mission are "reset" like gospel truth, without any confirmation from a credible source (again a guy that has never run a mission is not a credible source);
Second: this is the second time is see this thread, with the same arguments (not sure if done by the same player and not interested enough to research it through the forum), the same flimsy "evidence" of some guy saying that some other guye has sad that.
It seem more a campaign by some people fearing an instancing of missions or some change in the "crucial loot" mechanism that a real complaint of something happening.
So someone has ever tried to get a mission reset because someone has stolen the loot? it worked?
Some reply by people that actually do missions and don't steal loot and salvage for isk and giggles would be much more credible.
THIS
/thumbs up
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CEO of Clan Shadow Cadre
www.shadowcadre.com
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Worlds End Consortium
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 20:01:00 -
[3]
With all due respect.... valid reasons aside.... all your doing is weakening the barrier that leaves some risk to literally zero risk.
you guys have it made in the shade... you have literally no risk at all in what you do.. and yet you ask for "moar".
If anyone is guilty of bias.. its you Tchell... right down to the core.
your just too damn proud to admit it.
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"
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CEO of Clan Shadow Cadre
www.shadowcadre.com
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Worlds End Consortium
|
Posted - 2009.01.22 06:43:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Tchell Dahhn
Edited by: Tchell Dahhn on 22/01/2009 00:59:13
Originally by: Wardo21
When my mission running fit has some usefulness in this sort of PvP encounter, then it's not harassment.
It's not harassment now, or there would be actions taken against the perpetrator, which there are not.
Originally by: Wardo21
As it stands now, the item thief has a ship he knows will be at an advantage against 90% of the ships he's likely to face in the mission. If the thief recognizes the mission they might even have time to tailor their damage output to go against a weak spot in the mission runners tank. (Hrm, a Raven in a Guristas mission, I think I will switch to an EM damage gank setup...)
Welcome to EvE. Been here long?
Originally by: Wardo21
Not to mention how many mission runners carry a point on their ships? That's about the last thing you need in a NPC mission. There is no real risk to the thief unless they get alpha strike destroyed, or for some other reason can't warp off fast enough for the incoming DPS.
Exactly right, and exactly why it's done. Here's a tip - don't engage the thief.
I have a question for you - let's say your Mission is invaded by someone stealing the Mission Item, and you petition to have it reset. You get it, and the thief returns to steal the item again. So, you have it reset again. What happens when the thief petitions you for harassment, since he now has had to steal the Mission Item twice. (You're obviously griefing him, because your exploiting the GM's Mission Reset and not using "normal game mechanics", a term which is quoted - oh so much - in the forums.)
What then? Why is it fair for you to call foul on harassment and not them?
The Answer is obvious... the GM would laugh at the thief because its obvious the thief is harassing the mission running with intent to disrupt.
Oh... I'm sorry... that's common sense.
I guess you where expect us to fall for your trap of ill-fated-greed-infested logic?
You really think the GM's are that dense to not check the logs and track history?
Oh I'm sorry... is the poor little ninja salvager crying for his ransom because the pilot is reporting "harassment"?
No favor will be given to you people because you have zero risk.
You reading my lips?
ZERO RISK
Period...
And until there is risk... you will not be heard. I don't care if your queen of the galaxy.
That's the bottom line right there.
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Worlds End Consortium
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Posted - 2009.01.22 17:29:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Tchell Dahhn
Originally by: Drake Draconis
And until there is risk... you will not be heard. I don't care if your queen of the galaxy.
Thank Me (heh - bigger than the Queen) that you're not the only voice to be heard. That's a very limited view you have there - "Tchell Dahhn is being selfish, so let's not even listen the ideas that make sense."
That's ok - Mission Runners aren't the only Players in the game.
Sorry to burst your bubble tchell... but your stuffed up pride is making you stupid.
The Voice I speak is one of rationality and reason.... unbiased with the fact that I'm not really interested in the greed or ego of EVE... I seek to play the game to be constructive and to further my corporation.... the games too large for self indulgence.
Your trying to make the bank robber look like the victim in this sad little tale of your so called "exploit" complaint.
While you have valid points... the underlining agenda is a little too obvious.. and that is why you will be ignored.
As I've said a thousand times... until there is risk... you will not get your wish.
All you have to do is scan probe out the mission area... show up... salvage..and leave with a ton of ISK.
One would call that ISK farming...
Zero effort.... very little time invovled.. and you make out like a bandit.
Someone war decs you.. you go hide in your little hole and wait it out... or run off.... even if you did fight youd have better finances than anyone else combined.
Ninja Salvaging at the time of its first inception may look like a valid tactic... but any tactic overused/abused would quickly change that opinion...
Case and point: Ghost training.
And that's undeniable.
Whats going to happen if you salvage a wreck and you get aggro? How about taking a security hit for interfering with empire mission's? After all you are interfering in the affairs of the said sovereign empires that hand out these missions.
You may think I'm just rattling my gums for the sake of the carebears you oh so hate with a passion.
But in reallity its because of those carebears your making millions if not billions.... with very very little effort.
Even then.... this so called mission reset exploit is actually in your favor... so it gets reset... that means more wrecks to clean up.
Guess you didn't think of that did you?
Don't want double the trit bars tchell? Lost your way have you?
Everyone knows that mission payouts are worthless.... salvage is what makes the ISK.
And your little business of taking advantage of that... daresay "Exploiting" that fact is going to get a little negative attention... because you are not getting any danger or risk from doing it to begin with... until you decide to get even more greedy and steal the loot and then hold mission items for ransom.
this is why this topic falls under a controversial category.... and one that will not be paid attention too until CCP finds the time to bother listening... they have other things to take care of...
Until there is a defense against invasion of missions... I'm not going to sit here at let people be blinded by your "holier than thou" attitude.
Your excuse of "Shooting back when they take loot" is completely unreasonable unless the mission runner is smart enough to use tactics to wait out the aggro timer... and even then its destructive to the mission runners environment.
Which in turn leads to the age old argument of eliminate the mission runners and send them packing to low-sec or endless war-decs.
At that rate I might as well go get a copy of Warhammer online and say frak it.
But we aren't there yet... and I'm hopefull CCP won't fall prey to such things.
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CEO of Clan Shadow Cadre
www.shadowcadre.com
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Worlds End Consortium
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Posted - 2009.01.22 18:05:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Drake Draconis on 22/01/2009 18:07:42
T.T;
===============
CEO of Clan Shadow Cadre
www.shadowcadre.com
=============== |
Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Worlds End Consortium
|
Posted - 2009.01.22 19:26:00 -
[7]
Funny who this whole thing stems from a single quote from a GM....
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CEO of Clan Shadow Cadre
www.shadowcadre.com
=============== |
Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Worlds End Consortium
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 00:10:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: Drake Draconis
Sorry to burst your bubble tchell... but your stuffed up pride is making you stupid.
The Voice I speak is one of rationality and reason....
Who's the one with the stuffed up pride? It is not for you to declare that you speak with the voice of rationality and reason. Your abuse of ellipses marks you as an undisciplined thinker.
I fully support Tchell's proposal - that GM's be given a firm guide on the conditions under which a mission-space reset is considered appropriate. If someone steals your mission loot, just fail the mission. It costs you less than one-third the reputation gain from a successfully completed mission.
And Drake, please leave the ellipses alone. All those pauses in the sentences might be dramatic when you're coming to the denouement in an epic adventure story, but as part of an argument over rules of a game they're pretentious and make it look like your brain isn't fast enough to keep up with the argument.
Says pot calling kettle black.
===============
CEO of Clan Shadow Cadre
www.shadowcadre.com
=============== |
Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Worlds End Consortium
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 18:57:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Saphirro
Edited by: Saphirro on 23/01/2009 01:41:02
Originally by: Drake Draconis
Sorry to burst your bubble tchell... but your stuffed up pride is making you stupid.
The Voice I speak is one of rationality and reason.... unbiased with the fact that I'm not really interested in the greed or ego of EVE... I seek to play the game to be constructive and to further my corporation.... the games too large for self indulgence.
Your trying to make the bank robber look like the victim in this sad little tale of your so called "exploit" complaint.
My god that post is hard to read. Talk about horrible formatting. (Please don't actually do that.)
The bank robber would actually be the victim in a world where the law is that he is perfectly within his rights and the law to steal the item, and the banker cries foul and gets divine assistance to generate a new one from thin air.
If this does indeed take place (And I believe it used to, even if it no longer does) then it's not a level playing field. GM's should stick to their word of no intervention on the missions.
Rationality and reason you say? The words of a fool seem true to himself don't they?
Again... says the Pot calling the Kettle black. |
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